By DENMAN C. ANDERSON
Boy Harsher is a band whose name is hot on the tongues of music fans across a spectrum of indie and underground communities. Forming in 2013, the duo of Jae Matthew and Augustus Muller had already fomented a cult following in the dark music scene of the 2010s before the release of their first album “Yr Body is Nothing.” From there it’s been a continuously upward momentum. Between Muller’s hypnotically melodic rhythms and Matthew’s monolithically powerful voice, a Boy Harsher live show feels more like a ritual than a concert. Honing a sound somewhere between darkwave and driving synth-pop, their recorded music holds equal power. Even a person unaware of the band has surely heard their hit single “Pain”. Whether in a bar, a club, a movie, or a TV show, that baseline has passed their ear at least once.
But Boy Harsher’s cruising ship hit the same rocks that everyone else did in 2020. And like many other performing artists, they suddenly found themselves adrift. Unsure of what to do, or even what would happen next, Jae and Gus (Augustus) decided to look backward. In a previous life, they met while both were studying film. Between the two was a fair amount of passion, education, and experience in the medium. So, when a new Boy Harsher album failed to materialize during a time of global and personal struggle, they made a parallel move back into film. The juices began to flow, and what eventually emerged was The Runner. The forty-minute horror short vacillates between music video movie and loose narrative story. It’s as cinematic as it is intriguing, which is probably why Shudder picked up The Runner, after a limited number of special screenings. And, finally, that third Boy Harsher album finally arrived too, in the form of the official soundtrack.
Then, busy once again, Jae and Gus were kind enough to sit down and chat about ten horror films they find influential, be it formative, personal, or through the lens of The Runner.
Reader beware: there are spoilers abound here.
1. My Bloody Valentine (1981, Dir. Geoge Mihalka)
Jae: I can say the first one, which is very appropriate for today (This exchange took place on February 14th), is My Bloody Valentine 1981. I always bring this movie up because that is one we watch a lot for like, gore reference. It’s the guide on how to fucking destroy someone on screen, and make it look absolutely realistic. The death scenes in that movie are so insane! Dude I heard that they didn’t even put all of the gore all of the murders in (to the unedited version). Even now there’s some on the floor because it was too extreme. It’s the most slasher of all the slasher films I can say I’ve seen and like been engaged with. I bring it up a lot because thematically I love the idea of this murderer going out and killing lovers and it being super directed at, you know, sexuality but also romance.
2. Shivers (1975, Dir. David Cronenberg)
Gus: So I guess I could start with a movie I just re-watched, which is Shivers, Cronenberg’s first feature film. I’m drawn to a lot of low-budget first horror films right now. Obviously, it’s relevant to us, and it’s just kinda cool to see what auteur directors were able to do with a really small budget. Like how their style shone through, even in these circumstances. I think Shivers definitely feels very low budget, and like a lot of 70’s horror films. But there’s definitely this element that other films don’t have.
Just the way people talk is very casual and very realistic, and Cronenberg obviously has a great sense of that. So he paints these really bizarre situations, but they come across as very normal. There’s this one scene where Joe Silver, who’s the doctor who was working on the experiments with the crazy doctor who murders that woman at the beginning, is just explaining these totally unrealistic experiments they were doing. And they infected the bodies, and basically, this was becoming an epidemic. And just the way he’s able to tell this story is just totally believable. Like, oh yeah totally, this is real life. I think that shines through in all Cronenberg’s movies: really bizarre situations that come across so natural and so real. And that’s what’s so horrifying about them.
J: Yeah like even in Rabid when things become so unhinged, like the famous shopping mall scene. It could be totally unbelievable, but you’re along for the ride so sincerely, you’re like yep mm-hmm.
3. The Thing (1982, Dir. John Carpenter)
J: Totally unbeknownst to me, Gus picking Shivers. Even though Cronenberg is my dude, I went the other way and picked John Carpenter’s, The Thing. It’s funny that I feel like these are almost alike. They’re definitely within the same family, body horror. And they explore the same kind of thing, you know, like that community paranoia. I still remember my favorite scene. The paranoia has gotten so extreme, and they’ve tied everyone to the seats. And so he’s testing the blood, and when everyone’s blood is normal it’s like: sssst! And there’s one fucking guy and they’re tied to him! And that is fundamentally amazing.
I didn’t know until I was doing a little research today that it was a commercial failure. It’s so good! That’s really disappointing, because, not unlike Shivers, what you fall into first is this super successful group dynamic. The characters are so full, so sincere. Everyone has this amazing personality and you’re kinda just immediately in there with it. And you know what they do now in films? I hate to be grumpy, but it’s so serious. Even when they re-made the thing, everyone’s so super serious. It’s like “We’re working in Antarctica” or whatever. But this version is silly and fun, and people have personalities. The dog guy, it’s so tragic! You know, the whole dog scenario in that movie is tragic for me. And the practical effects! Yeah, the dog moment it’s like “Uhhh!” That’s such a good scene. Yeah, I think a lot of me talking about movies is just gonna be me saying the things I just carry so sincerely.
4. Ms.45 (1981, Dir. Abel Ferrara)
G: So now moving into the “those aren’t horror films” horror films, I’ve got Ms.45, another movie I re-watched recently. Similar thing, like, what an auteur was able to do with not a lot of money. And I really like Abel Ferrara’s journey as a filmmaker. The first feature film he made was like a porn, and then he makes Driller Killer. And then he gets a little bit more of a leash and he makes Ms.45. So I like that journey through exploitation films. Just making like popcorn movies, or porn just to get his foot in the door. And I feel like Ms.45 is the first movie where he’s trying to tell something more than just a slasher or something like that.
I think there are a lot of parallels between Ms.45 and The Runner. Not something we were talking about while making the film, but re-watching it now, I’m just sort of seeing it. I mean obviously, it’s a character study of a single woman, their journey. But there’s this theme that I’m seeing; it’s just about this transformation that this character has. And it’s a transformation caused by something that’s not in their power. So in Ms.45 it’s obviously these rapes she experiences, but also maybe it’s misogyny in general. It transforms her in a visceral way so that she starts gunning down every man in Manhattan.
5. The Descent (2005, Dir. Neil Marshall)
J: It’s funny because the next movie that I picked is not because of that. But they’re similar in a way, because I think it’s a character study focused on female trauma. It’s one of the first movies that I remember seeing in a theatre, and being so scared I was like crying, which is The Descent. I was in high school, and it just: Fucked. Me. Up. And we just of re-watched it, and like… the opening. You always forget about the opening. And it’s actually super horrifying. Maybe it’s because I’m older, or maybe when you see it in the theater you’re just totally being bombarded by horrific events. But what I carry with The Descent is how her trauma really informed her ability to survive the complete unknown.
G: Do You think that’s why she survives?
J: I do
G: Because she’s not so cavalier down there? Because she’s the only one who has boundaries or something?
J: Or, she’s the only one who in recent past has gone through something that’s like: She’s been to hell! Like that might be the logline: “She’s been to hell but now she’s going for real” Right? Like it made her just as callous as primal monsters. I have all these memories of how she’s just destroying people at the end. Like killing the beasts and then when she gets to Juno… That’s a definite choice. I think the one thing in my mind I would really resent is the implication that that choice comes from like, knowing about adultery, or having some type of familial trouble or threat. I want to believe the choice is actually about survival. And she knew she had to wound someone in order to get herself out, because the creatures would be eating that person. It’s fucked up. And in the theater, of course, everything is so much bigger and louder. I remember I did not sleep for so long after that.
6. Der Fan (1982, Dir. Eckhart Schmidt)
G: Next I’ve got Der Fan. This is a film I watched after The Runner; I watched this like last month. Similar story arcs. So you have a woman who is controlled or obsessed about something. And you watch that unfold, and you watch that come to fruition. I think there is a lot of film history behind this, and I think a lot of people have got some opinions on like, coming out of world war II. And I would love to read that stuff, but for me, I look at it as an instinctual thing or a visceral thing, watching that character arc.
J: I was shocked how little blood there was in that movie. Based on what is happening in the movie you, would expect there to be a total bloodbath.
G: It’s a very clean movie. She never sweats, she’s never dirty, and then when she’s murdering him at the end, there’s no blood. There’s like a couple drips here, but then she cleans up everything, perfectly. And it’s just shot so well, and I just think it’s got great style.
J: And we were talking about this the other day, like how wild it is that she’s so young.
G: There’s a scene where she’s watching horror on the television, and it’s like straight out of The Runner. We have a sequence that’s just like that. And obviously, I’m a little bit biased because we just made that film, but I kinda feel like they’re getting at the same point there. That like this pop culture which you see on television, I think at that point, it’s got a lot to do with capitalism making its way over. And how that’s influencing her. So it’s again, like this story about a character who’s going through this transformation that’s out of her control. That’s like this third party that’s transforming her.
J: I mean it is interesting right? Covet culture is such a tenant of capitalism that I didn’t really consider how the reflection of it, like watching something and coveting it so much that you literally..I know she doesn’t consume him but she kinda does.
G: She does consume him. And it’s all competition. You know she’s competing with all the other girls to get into the studio.
J: Yeah so it’s definitely like: I covet that.
7. Titane (2021, Dir. Julia Ducournau)
J: I mean I guess in the realm of body horror I’m gonna go with a film we were miraculously able to see in theaters, during covid: Titane, by Julia Ducournau.
The impact it had was because of the extreme body experience, but then you’re also following this woman. Her arc is trying to discover what it means to be human, or like trying to find her own humanity. But it’s because she starts out as this, um, you know one of the dancers who dances on sports cars? But she’s also inexplicably like a murderer. That’s not giving anything away. But it’s like the way in which the film explores closeness. I think it is very much about intimacy. It’s a treat. The actress Agathe Rouselle is amazing, a very good body performer. Her relationship to this man she meets in the movie Vincent Lindon is like, ‘chef’s kiss.’ That’s the part of the film where I started really leaning into it. She pretends to be his long lost son. Also not really giving anything away. Before that though, there are some extremely violent moments that are really hard to sit through.
It reminds me of when everyone was seeing Antichrist and there’s like… this moment. So to me it’s like there’s a couple of “those moments” in the film. And it’s just shocking because you’re like: I haven’t even figured out what this movie is about yet, much less like now I’m deeply into this very gory moment. But Julia Ducournau is so funny and so straight forward and she’s like,”This movie is just about love.” It’s crazy how she doesn’t intellectualize it, or over-emotionalize it. I think that’s very cool; I’m very inspired by that.
G: I love it because the lead is such a monster, and they’re making so many mistakes. But I was right there with her that whole time. She has very few lines even, but it’s just, I dunno, her character really. You sympathize with her.
J: It’s true, and i wonder if it’s because she’s not cold, calculated. She’s making it up as she goes along.
G: Well it feels kinda like a Ms.45 thing where like she’s been wronged so many times. You know like the first scene she’s like attacked, sexually assaulted, and her responding to that. It’s like, that’s the spiral down
J: I Mean I do think there’s an implication that she was killing before that incident because of the news cycle. What really is interesting is that relationship to cars, like relationship to technology. And then part of her arc is disengaging from that, and like developing a relationship with Vincent Lindon. Who is just like, I can’t even. I wish there was a tv show about that character.
8. Naked Lunch (1991, Dir. David Cronenberg)
G: So we were talking about Shivers earlier: Cronenberg’s first movie, with a really low budget, and what he could do with it. Then fast forward to 1991, and he does Naked Lunch. I just re-watched that recently. And I’m putting this as a horror movie, because when I was sixteen I saw it and I was traumatized. I wouldn’t go near that movie for a long time because it made me feel so weird. But, watching it again, I fucking love it. I think it’s genius on so many levels. I think it could be pretentious so easily. But how casual peter Weller is? He’s just so stone-cold and casual reciting all those William Boroughs lines. It’s just so sincere.
It’s really cool, and I think that another thing I like about it is just the vibe. It’s got a vibe, and an atmosphere that you could cut with a knife. And there’s few films like that; a few directors that can pull that off. Like, we’re always talking about David Lynch and Lost Highway, and that’s something that were chained to. And we don’t mind that, because we love it. We’ve got the Lost Highway screenplay book right here. But that’s ’97. Naked Lunch is 1991. And I feel like it’s such a pre-cursor to what David Lynch pulled off with Lost Highway. It’s just this super surreal, super disassociated story, and it’s so spooky cool. But it just has so much style. So I feel like Cronenberg was already playing with that style in the early 90’s.
J: And I think when it comes to what we always return to and re-watch, and never get sick of, are Cronenberg films, Lynch films, and the Cohen Brothers. When you’re talking about horror films, it’s fun to kinda bring up the random ones too.
Every interview we’ve done, we’ve talked about Blood Simple. It’s so important; we love Blood Simple. And it became an equation for us, very much so. And we’re like oh cool, this is how they did all this. But i do think the masters at atmosphere are the people that we really respect the most.
G: Yeah there’s things that happen in Naked Lunch that make no sense. He gets a business card to a doctor, and then goes to see the doctor, and the doctor prescribes him ground up centipede dust. And then he gets addicted to that. But it just feels like, yeah, that totally makes sense for the script; you’re right there. Then, oh now he’s in some remote African city at the centipede factory. And you’re like, yeah. That’s the same thing that’s so powerful about Lost Highway, is like how scenes go from scene to scene.
8.5. Lost Highway (1997, Dir. David Lynch)
J: We talk about Lost Highway a lot too, because the first third of the film when Fred is kind of falling into the despair of jealousy and paranoia, it evolves into his violent actions. But it’s not explicit. I think that’s a really interesting way to tell that story. The reason why I’m reading this (Lost Highway script) right now is because I’m trying to figure out how they made that segue work. Like the psychogenic fugue or something. He has this funny way of describing the extreme split in the movie. Which is truthfully where I fall off. Not because it’s unbelievable, but because I’m not that into the performance of Pete. I know, ouch. But I do love the film so much, and I like the way it utilizes, videotapes, the way it utilizes screens, and the way it visualizes the point of view of some unknown assailant or entity is perfect.
G: They’re able to tell a story through the script, but also through the style. The style implies so much and motivates so much, that it’s almost like an extra character in the film.
J: David Lynch says the idea for Lost Highway began with him driving home one night with Mary Sweeney, who he was dating at the time but also his editor, famously. So they’re a couple and he’s like, “Oh I had this idea.” And he tells her about the couple, and the videotapes, and the murder. And she was really really scared and that’s when he knew it was a great idea for a movie.
G: Was that your last one?
J: No Lost Highway wasn’t on my list
G: That’s a bonus one.
9. Relic (2020, Dir. Natalie Erika James)
J: No my final film is one that I picked, because I think it’s important to bring up films that you relate to in a way that’s even farther outside of cinematic relatability. It’s this horror film called Relic. It’s an Australian film by Natalie Erika James, that came out in 2020. The reason why I love it and very much relate to it is because it’s about this woman and her daughter, dealing with her mother, possibly becoming demented…or something else. But the setup is so fucking scary and so good. So her mom lives in the middle of nowhere in like the Australian woods, I guess. And they get notified that she’s gone missing, so they go to this house in order to find her elderly mom. The house is scary as shit. Her father had passed away years ago. But it’s so good it scared me in a fundamental way. Deeper than just thrill or jump scares. It’s really really good; I highly recommend it if you haven’t seen it. It’s her first feature and she’s this young female Australian director, and I was fully along for the ride. And it’s a really dark ride, I think for me, and anyone who relates to this. What made it so heartbreaking is that dementia and Alzheimer’s are about watching someone change. And you don’t understand what’s going on, and it feels so foreign and bizarre, that that’s also really frightening. The performances are so fucking good too.
10. The Silence of the Lambs (1991, Dir. Jonathan Demme)
G: Last one. The quintessential horror film that’s not a horror film: The Silence of the Lambs. I’ve watched this movie like eight times this year. I think it’s the gold standard of directing; just so perfect. Amazing acting, amazing shot design. And it’s got kind of this film-noir take on it. The last time we watched it we realized that all of the conversations that Jodi Foster is having are POV. Every one is looking directly into the lens. We noticed this after making The Runner but I was going back and watching The Silence of the Lambs because it’s a very voyeuristic movie. It’s about Jodie Foster going to all these places and finding things and looking at things, and just like taking in the environment. And she finds something then that takes her to the next step. And that’s very much what The Runner arc is. It’s like something happens in a space to her that brings her to the next place. So I’ve been looking at the shot design that they were using, to convey that in a really personal way.
J: The eye contact is, I think, subconsciously really infectious. It is something that forces you to be experiencing what she’s experiencing. We talk about The Silence of the Lambs versus Manhunter a lot. One thing that is really important is that in The Silence of the Lambs, Jodie Foster is this excellent protagonist. She’s innocent but a hard worker.
G: Blue-collar background; father’s dead.
J: It’s tragic. She loves the lambs, but she couldn’t save them. And in Manhunter, Sargent Graham is just not lovable in the same way. I know the stories are so similar but, Jodie is someone you want to be right there with. Even though she’s presented as meek in this funny way, you realize she’s so strong and capable.
G: Well you know she’s not meek, because she’s strong in the beginning. She’s working, running, asserting herself, but she’s surrounded by these men who don’t respect her, who are physically much larger than her, who don’t take her seriously.
J: They cast all these background men who are twice her size, just to close in on that.
G: And in the opening scene for The Silence of the Lambs, Jodie Foster is just running. It’s the title sequence. She’s just running, running, running, and you’re bombarded by these shot’s of her running. That was something that inspired us for The Runner. Repetition is a big part of our work: repeating lyrics, repeating rhythms. When you hear something enough times or you see something enough times you really start to over-analyze what’s happening. So you’re over analyzing what’s on-screen because you’re just watching her running through the woods. And you start to question, oh is she running from something, is she running after something, is she lost? And I think that’s what we were trying to set up in The Runner.
J: The woods in The Silence of the Lambs are so comically spooky. There’s like fog, and it’s like it’s not just training. Even though it is just training. But there’s like fucking scary signs on the trees. I don’t even remember what they say anymore, but it could be like Sleepaway Camp. There’s something very spooky about it.
G: I picked two very specific types of movies: very low budget first time directors, and then, like, The Silence of the Lambs. Yeah they had eight fog machines, and a crew of fifty people. And they’re like, “Oh can we get like a little more shadow on that one tree?” It’s a very manicured mood movie, which would be my only complaint about it. All the dialogue is very punchy. But it’s just a perfect film, and it’s just cool to see that immaculate filmmaking at work.
J: It’s always fun to talk about these movies but then in my mind, I’m like: “Wow what should we remake?” The other day I was like “Gus, we should try to re-make Near Dark. I’m sure that would never be allowed, because of the ways in which production companies really grab onto legacy and royalties. But I think that one is really deserving of a re-boot.
Thank you again for asking us to do this; it’s always fun talking about these movies.
Boy Harsher Photos by Courtney Brooke
Boy Harsher’s film The Runner is out now and available streaming on Shudder and AMC+.
